Photo by Randy Norton

Helen Smith

Widowed at the age of 30, Helen Smith bought her house on Independence Avenue SE in 1957 and has been a popular member of that neighborhood ever since.

For years, Mrs. Smith commuted to Virginia to care for children as a babysitter and surrogate parent. At home, she babysat Capitol Hill children and had a house full of devoted nieces and nephews, including nephew Mr. King, a beloved, decades-long employee at Congressional Cemetery. Her memories paint the picture of a neighborhood that has changed physically but kept a steady, friendly spirit that endured through riots and celebrated together when the circus marched its elephants through town. Of particular interest are her memories of the entertainment she found with friends in Atlantic City, Wilmer's Park, and cabarets at WUST Music Hall n downtown DG.

Read Transcript
Interview Date
March 24, 2024
Interviewer
Randy Norton
Transcriber
Betsy Barnet
Editor
Elizabeth Lewis

Full Directory


NORTON: Okay. It seems to be moving. My name is Randy Norton. I am with Helen Smith at her house at 1324 Independence Avenue SE, Washington, DC. And we’re doing an interview for the Capitol Hill Oral History Project. And thank you very much, by the way, to agreeing to letting us record it and transcribe it and put it on our website. I really appreciate that.
Where were you born?
SMITH: Washington, DC.
NORTON: When?
SMITH: When? August the 12th, 1927.
NORTON: Okay, all right. 1927. August 12th was my anniversary, but that’s okay.
SMITH: Oh. [Laughs.]
NORTON: And how long did you live in DC?
SMITH: I lived in DC ... I think it’s about 60-some years. Well, in other words, ever since ’57.
NORTON: Okay. Well, how about now when you were first born, though, did you stay in DC or did you go …
SMITH: No.
NORTON: Where did you go?
SMITH: Virginia.
NORTON: And, so, that’s where you grew up?
SMITH: Yes.
NORTON: Whereabouts in Virginia?
SMITH: Over in Arlington. They call it Arlington, where the Pentagon is sitting.
NORTON: Oh, where it is now?
SMITH: Yes.
NORTON: Okay. Okay. And how long did you live there?
SMITH: Let me see. We moved away from there when I was, I think, about eight or nine, I think.
NORTON: Okay. Where did you all move?
SMITH: Well, we moved—we still were over in Arlington and at that particular time it was called Green Valley [historically Black neighborhood in south Arlington].
NORTON: All right. Okay. Do you remember the street you were on?
SMITH: Yes,
NORTON: Which one?
SMITH: Well, the house we were living in it was 2200 South Monroe Street.
NORTON: Okay.
SMITH: Arlington, Virginia. I forget the zip [code].
NORTON: Well, they didn’t have a zip back then. [Both laugh.] So, okay. And where’d you go to school?
SMITH: Over in Arlington. The name of the school was Hoffman-Boston.
NORTON: Oh, yeah. Okay. Hoffman-Boston.
SMITH: I went there eight years.
NORTON: Okay, so, through what? Through eighth grade?
SMITH: Yeah.
NORTON: Okay. And then what did you do?
SMITH: Uh, what did I do? Oh, I babysitted.
NORTON: Really?
SMITH: Yes.
NORTON: Was that still back in Arlington? Or were you …
SMITH: Yeah, yeah.
NORTON: Okay, okay.
SMITH: But I babysitted for my family, for my sister, brother, and nephew.
NORTON: Okay, okay.
SMITH: My mother took me out of school.
NORTON: All right.
SMITH: You know, to babysit them.
NORTON: Okay. How did you end up in DC again?
SMITH: Well, all right, I ended up in DC ... In 1955. I got married.
NORTON: Okay.
SMITH: And my husband at that time was in the Army.
NORTON: Okay. All right.
SMITH: And he was stationed at Fort Hood, Texas.
NORTON: Okay.
SMITH: Yes. So, I stayed here a year and I went to Texas in 1956. And he got out in 1957.
NORTON: He got out of the service.
SMITH: Yeah.
NORTON: Okay.
SMITH: That’s how I ended up back in DC.
NORTON: Okay. And where did you live when you first came back to DC?
SMITH: I lived at 1520 Potomac Avenue SE.
NORTON: So, you’ve been pretty much in this neighborhood for a long, long time.
SMITH: Yeah.
NORTON: Okay. And that was with your husband?
SMITH: Yeah. And with his aunt.
NORTON: Okay.
SMITH: We lived with his aunt.
NORTON: Do you remember what her name was?
SMITH: Oh, what was her name?
NORTON: I’m sorry. This isn’t like a test in school. I was just asking.
SMITH: Ooh, I forget her name. Mmm.
NORTON: That’s all right. How long did you live at the Potomac Avenue address?
SMITH: I lived about—let me see. I think we got out in October. No. Let’s see. We must have in November.
NORTON: So, he got out October of ’57 then, right?
SMITH: Yeah, because I think I got this house in October ’57. We didn’t live there too long.
NORTON: Okay. Short period of time. And, then, you what? You got this house? The house …
SMITH: Yeah.
NORTON: The 1324 Independence?
SMITH: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
NORTON: Was it Independence then or was it B Street?
SMITH: It must have been—No, it was Independence Avenue because my address always have been Independence Avenue. [B Street was renamed Independence Avenue in 1943.]
NORTON: Okay.
SMITH: But it was two-way.
NORTON: Okay. It was two-ways. And it’s been one-way I know at least about 50 years.
SMITH: Yeah, yeah. It was two-way when I moved here.
NORTON: Okay. Now, did you move here with your husband?
SMITH: No, I moved here after my husband got killed.
NORTON: Oh, I’m sorry.
SMITH: Yeah, he got killed on his job.
NORTON: Okay.
SMITH: So, the money that I got from him, I got this house.
NORTON: Okay. And you bought it yourself, right?
SMITH: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Just me, by myself.
NORTON: Well, that was something back in 1957.
SMITH: Yeah.
NORTON: So, did you have to take a loan or anything like that or was it …?
SMITH: Oh, yeah, I did.
NORTON: Okay. But they gave you a loan and everything. Yeah. Good for them.
SMITH: I was with Perpetual.
NORTON: Okay. Yeah, I remember Perpetual.
SMITH: Uh-huh.
NORTON: So, you moved in here and did any other family members or anybody live with you over here?
SMITH: Yes. Let me see. I brought my mother and sister with me because … Can I go back?
NORTON: Sure, you can go back.
SMITH: Okay. When I was a young girl—recording it, right?
NORTON: Yes.
SMITH: Mm-hmm. When I was a young girl, I sit down one day, because my mother—back then we used wood, coal oil, and all, you know, all of that back then.
NORTON: Right. Was that to cook and to heat?
SMITH: Yes.
NORTON: Okay.
SMITH: So, one day I sit down and I said, “Lord, please spare me to get grown so I can get a house and put my mother in it and she won’t have to be lugging wood and coal and stuff.” And the Lord spared me to do that and I thanked Him. And I brought my mother and sister with me. Well, it wasn’t too long after I moved here.
NORTON: Okay.
SMITH: So, I would say in ’58.
NORTON: Something like that.
SMITH: Yeah.
NORTON: Okay. Now, when you moved here, now ... how did you heat the house here?
SMITH: By radiator. They had radiator heat.
NORTON: Radiators. And was it oil heat or …?
SMITH: No. It was always radiator.
NORTON: Okay, okay, okay, okay. Okay. So, you moved here with your mother and who else?
SMITH: My sister.
NORTON: Okay. And was that Bert? And what’s her official name?
SMITH: Bertha Davis.
NORTON: Okay
SMITH: And she passed away in 1999.
NORTON: I remember her.
SMITH: Yeah.
NORTON: Yes.
SMITH: Yeah.
NORTON: Yes. And, so, she lived here with you the whole time, right?
SMITH: Yes.
NORTON: Up until she passed away?
SMITH: Mm-hmm.
NORTON: Okay. Now, so, it was your mother and your sister lived with you.
SMITH: Yeah.
NORTON: And how ... [Telephone rings.]
SMITH: Who the devil is that calling me? I’ll tell them I’ll call them back. [Pause.]
NORTON: Okay, we were on pause for just a second while … [Telephone rings.]
SMITH: Excuse me for a minute. I know that’s her.
NORTON: All right.
SMITH: Okay. Where are we?
NORTON: Well, let’s see. As I was saying, we went on pause there for a second while Helen took a phone call and, hopefully, she won’t get too many more. [Both laugh.] But we’ll see, we’ll see. All right. So, when did your mother pass away?
SMITH: My mother passed away in 1982.
NORTON: So, she was living here when we [the Norton family] moved in then.
SMITH: Yeah.
NORTON: Okay. I guess I remember her. I guess I do. So …
SMITH: Yeah, because, like I say, I got the house, Mama went to work more than I did.
NORTON: What was she doing?
SMITH: She was doing housework.
NORTON: Okay.
SMITH: Mm-hmm.
NORTON: And what were you doing for, you know …?
SMITH: Babysitting. Babysitting and a little housework.
NORTON: Okay. When you say babysitting, who did you babysit for?
SMITH: Oh, a lot of people. Them people right over there [apparently points toward a picture] I babysitted for them for 15 years. I raised all their kids.
NORTON: Well, that’s all right. Don’t go because you’re hooked up.
SMITH: Oh, that’s right. I forgot. I moved it. But see right there.
NORTON: Yep.
SMITH: See that picture right there?
NORTON: Yeah.
SMITH: Underneath of there?
NORTON: Mm-hmm, yeah. I see.
SMITH: I raised him.
NORTON: Okay. [Muffled noises.] Now I’m hooked up, too.
SMITH: [Laughs.] No, right here. Look. Out here in the hall. Down underneath of there.
NORTON: Here, okay.
SMITH: Down underneath of there. Yeah, yeah. Right there. I raised him.
NORTON: All right.
SMITH: That’s him and his wife and son.
NORTON: [Laughs.] Let me hook myself back up.
SMITH: It was three of them. At first it was two of them. [Noises while interviewer’s microphone is being reattached.] At first it was just him. He was eight months old and his sister was ... Well, I started the first of October and in the middle of the month she turned three. And, then, another little one come along and I raised him, too. Because the mother had to go back in the hospital and the husband was in Florida with the two, with him and his sister. So, there wasn’t nobody in the house but just me and that infant and a dog.
NORTON: Well, where did they live when you first …?
SMITH: Over in Alexandria.
NORTON: Oh, so, it was over in Alexandria. How’d you meet them? How’d you, you know, hook up with them?
SMITH: I got it through the ... Back then you would go to an employment office and get a job.
NORTON: Do you remember roughly when it was that you raised that boy?
SMITH: Yeah. It was 1965 when I started with them.
NORTON: Okay. And how long did you stay with them?
SMITH: Fifteen years.
NORTON: Wow.
SMITH: I went over there every day.
NORTON: How’d you get there?
SMITH: Well, first it was the bus. And, then, when the subway come, I usually do the bus and subway.
NORTON: Okay, okay, okay. And that’s mostly what you did.
SMITH: Yeah, yeah.
NORTON: And some housework and that kind of stuff.
SMITH: Right. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
NORTON: Do you remember any other folks? Any people right in the neighborhood that you took care of the kids?
SMITH: Um-mmm. There weren’t any. No, let me see. The last one I raised, they lived over on Tenth Street NE.
NORTON: Okay, okay.
SMITH: Yeah. They in England. They call me, get on the phone and talk just like they’re around the corner.
NORTON: So, they live in England now.
SMITH: Yeah. She’s been back home. The mother was from England.
NORTON: Huh. Do you remember when that was that you raised that kid?
SMITH: Babysitted for them?
NORTON: Yeah, uh-huh.
SMITH: Let me see. He is 20—I think he 21 now. I think they left in ’16.
NORTON: That’d be 2016?
SMITH: I mean. Wait a minute. No. I think he was 16 when they left.
NORTON: Okay.
SMITH: And he is 21 now.
NORTON: So, it would have been five years ago. So, it would have been like, what? 2018 or ’19. Something like that.
SMITH: Somewhere around there, yeah.
NORTON: Okay, okay, okay. So, that’s the last family that you were the sitter for.
SMITH: That’s the last family. Mm-hmm, yeah.
NORTON: So, you’ve been doing it right all along, haven’t you?
SMITH: Yeah, yeah.
NORTON: Okay.
SMITH: And then I did some more up here—I didn’t raise them. I just babysitted for some up here in the 1200 block.
NORTON: Of Independence?
SMITH: Mm-hmm. And I babysitted over on Maryland Avenue. [Laughs.]
NORTON: Okay.
SMITH: And I babysitted down on, what was that street? One was on Emerald Street NE.
NORTON: Oh, right.
SMITH: And the other one was on—I think they were on Morton Street.
NORTON: When you say you babysat for them, what sort of arrangement did you have? I mean, did you go all the time, did you go …?
SMITH: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I went every day.
NORTON: Went every day? Okay. And that’d be what? Every weekday or …?
SMITH: Yeah, mm-hmm.
NORTON: Okay.
SMITH: I went five days a week.
NORTON: So, while the parents were at work.
SMITH: Work, yeah.
NORTON: Yeah, okay, okay, okay.
SMITH: Oh, wait, I forgot. And I babysitted some down on Ninth Street.
NORTON: Ninth Street SE?
SMITH: Southeast. Mm-hmm.
NORTON: Okay, okay.
SMITH: Yeah, I still hear from—I still hear from some of them.
NORTON: Do you?
SMITH: Mm-hmm.
NORTON: Oh, that’s great. Now, when you moved in here in 1957, what was the neighborhood like?
SMITH: Oh, my goodness, it was—When I moved in here, the neighborhood was full of children. I used to sit on the porch—because the traffic was two-way—and the little kids used to be running and going across the street and everything and I used to say to myself, “Oh, my goodness, I’ve got to go in the house. One of them kids is going to get hit by a car.”
NORTON: Did any of them?
SMITH: No, no.
NORTON: Well, that’s good. [Laughs.] When you say you were sitting out on the porch, this is the front stoop there. Yeah.
SMITH: Yeah, mm-hmm.
NORTON: Yeah, yeah, okay. A lot of people did that back in those days, didn’t they?
SMITH: Yeah, mm-hmm.
NORTON: Because people didn’t have air conditioning and …
SMITH: Right.
NORTON: … and, at least even when we moved in in ’75, it was a lot more people sat out front and you got to get to know the neighbors that way.
SMITH: I tell anybody, I say I’ve been living here for probably 60-some years, and the only thing I can think of that has happened in this block maybe a couple of people got robbed but no serious nothing.
NORTON: So, there was never, that you remember, no real serious crime problems.
SMITH: Nothing serious. No, um-mmm, um-mmm. Never, no serious problem.
NORTON: Okay. Well, that’s good, that’s good. When you moved here, was it—I mean, you know, were there a lot of young people? I guess there must have been if there were a lot of kids.
SMITH: Yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm.
NORTON: Now, did you ever have any kids?
SMITH: No, I didn’t.
NORTON: But Bert did, I know.
SMITH: Yeah, yeah. Bert did.
NORTON: Okay. And who was her oldest?
SMITH: Jeffrey.
NORTON: Jeffrey. And do you remember when he was born?
SMITH: Yeah, Jeff was born, let me see. Jeff was born in 1957.
NORTON: Okay. So, shortly after you moved in.
SMITH: No, before.
NORTON: Even before you moved in.
SMITH: Before I moved in.
NORTON: Okay, okay. And he’s passed away.
SMITH: No, wait a minute, wait a minute. I’m wrong. I take that back, because I was in Texas.
NORTON: You were in Texas when Jeffrey was born?
SMITH: Mm-hmm. So, Jeff must was born in ’56, summer. [Muffled talk and noise around microphone.]
NORTON: Don’t pull on it [the recorder].
SMITH: Oh. [Interviewer laughs.] Oh, I was doing it ...
NORTON: No, I’m sorry. This is just for the transcriber but it will make it go kee-kee-kee when you pull on it, so …
SMITH: Oh, okay. Jeff must was born in ’56.
NORTON: Okay.
SMITH: ’56.
NORTON: Okay. So, he was born even before you and Bert moved in over here.
SMITH: No—after. Well, yeah, yeah, yeah. Before. I take that back. Before. Before, yeah.
NORTON: But, did he mostly grow up around here?
SMITH: Around here, yeah.
NORTON: And how about the other of Bert’s kids?
SMITH: They all grew up here, in this house.
NORTON: All right. Why don’t you go ahead and list them for me, too, so ...
SMITH: Okay.
NORTON: If you can do it. This is like a test, right?
SMITH: Yeah, I know. [Both laugh.] Okay. I’ll start from Jeff and come on down.
NORTON: Okay.
SMITH: Okay. Jeffrey Davis, Kevin Davis, Angela Davis, Kevin Davis, Sherry Davis, and Don Davis.
NORTON: Okay. All right. And let’s see—the youngest was who? Donnie, right?
SMITH: Don, Don Davis.
NORTON: Don. Okay. And when was he born?
SMITH: Let me see. Donnie was born in 1955, I think.
NORTON: Okay. How about ’65? I only say that …
SMITH: I mean, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait, wait. I’m wrong. ’75. Because Sherry was born in ’72 and he was born in ’75.
NORTON: Right. Because I remember Donnie was little when we saw him. Yes, okay.
SMITH: Yeah.
NORTON: So, where did they all go to school?
SMITH: Let me see. Sherry went over here to—at that particular time it were Bryan [Elementary School].
NORTON: Across the street [1315 Independence Avenue SE].
SMITH: Across the street.
NORTON: The school was still operating then.
SMITH: Yeah, mm-hmm. And she left Bryan and went to Hine [Junior High School] down on Pennsylvania Avenue. [It was formerly at 310 Seventh Street SE].
NORTON: Okay.
SMITH: And Kevin—I don’t know if he went—I know he went to Eastern [High School]. And Jeffrey—hmm, I can’t remember whether Jeff went to school there.
NORTON: That’s all right.
SMITH: Unless it was Bryan.
NORTON: How about Donnie? I guess it was still operating. Or was it? When he went to elementary school, was Bryan still a going concern over there?
SMITH: I think so, yeah.
NORTON: Okay, okay. And where did he end up? Did he go any place after that?
SMITH: Eastern.
NORTON: He went to Eastern?
SMITH: Eastern, mm-hmm.
NORTON: Okay. How about Sherry? Where did she go after Hine?
SMITH: Uh, where did she go after Hines?
NORTON: Did she go to School Without Walls or something like that?
SMITH: Yeah, mm-hmm.
NORTON: Seems like I remember that.
SMITH: Yeah. Yeah, that’s where she went.
NORTON: Okay. And, you know, you always had a pretty full house, didn’t you?
SMITH: Yeah, I always did, I always did, always did.
NORTON: Yeah, it was great. And—go ahead.
SMITH: After Sherry and them left, after she had her kids and she left, my nephew moved in.
NORTON: And that’s King?
SMITH: King, mm-hmm.
NORTON: That’s Randolph King, right?
SMITH: Right, yeah.
NORTON: Okay. And he worked over at the Congressional Cemetery.
SMITH: Cemetery, mm-hmm.
NORTON: Okay.
SMITH: He worked over there for about 20 years.
NORTON: Is that right?
SMITH: Mm-hmm.
NORTON: Did he work over there pretty much the whole time he was living with you? Or did he work …?
SMITH: Yeah, most of the time. Yeah, mm-hmm.
NORTON: Okay. And he just passed away a year or so ago or in the last year.
SMITH: October. October the 11th.
NORTON: Okay, okay. And he was, in fact, was sort of beloved over there at the cemetery.
SMITH: Oh, they were crazy about him over there.
NORTON: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Did he come home and tell stories about the cemetery? Because he was there at some of the—you know, they had some ups and downs over there at the cemetery.
SMITH: No, he didn’t tell us too much about it. He used to tell me about different things that they would have over there.
NORTON: Like what?
SMITH: Like parties and things like that.
NORTON: I see. Okay. And he’d always ride his bike, right?
SMITH: Yeah, always ride his bike.
NORTON: He’d ride his bike everywhere.
SMITH: Mm-hmm. He did.
NORTON: Okay, okay. Now, how did the neighborhood ... I mean, I want to be right up front with you, you know. Was it mostly black people in the neighborhood when you first moved here?
SMITH: Yeah, when I first moved here, yes. Yes, mm-hmm.
NORTON: And, then, when did you start seeing some white people moving in?
SMITH: Oh, I guess, mmm—Okay, Mama died ’82. I think back in the late ‘80s, early ‘90s.
NORTON: Well, I know some of us moved in at least by ’75.
SMITH: Mm-hmm.
NORTON: That was us. [Both laugh.] Well, all right. Let me ask you this: do you remember when the house on the corner, the corner of the alley …
SMITH: This corner? [1312 Independence Avenue SE.]
NORTON: Yeah.
SMITH: Mm-hmm, yeah.
NORTON: Was that a store? A laundromat?
SMITH: It was a store at first. And then it was a laundromat.
NORTON: What kind of store was it to start with?
SMITH: Little grocery store.
NORTON: Okay, okay. And, then, there was also a little grocery store across the street [on the NE corner of Independence and Kentucky SE].
SMITH: Across the street, yeah.
NORTON: But there were two grocery stores going at the same time?
SMITH: Same time. [Laughs.]
NORTON: Okay, okay. Remember when it changed into a laundromat?
SMITH: No, I don’t.
NORTON: Okay. You remember the Silvers? They were the ones that moved in first after it got fixed up after the laundromat.
SMITH: No.
NORTON: Okay. Well, they were the folks [that] lived [there]. They had a couple of kids. And, then, we moved in. Okay, okay. You go ahead and tell me what you remember about the neighborhood changing, because I remember, when we moved in, we were —and this is not supposed to be my interview. I was supposed to be talking to you.
SMITH: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
NORTON: But, you know, a lot of people in the whole neighborhood were starting to, you know, come in. You know, the young people moving in and fixing up their houses.
SMITH: Right, yeah. It was a lot of young people living here when I moved in.
NORTON: Mm-hmm. Were they fixing up their houses at that point, too?
SMITH: No, they wasn’t.
NORTON: Because there was that time, all of a sudden, it seemed like when we moved in, everybody wanted to fix up their house.
SMITH: Yeah, mm-hmm.
NORTON: [Laughs.] Okay. All right. So, well, let me ask you about the stores in the neighborhood. I asked you about the laundromat that was a store and then there’s the one across the street there at the corner of Kentucky and Independence.
SMITH: I’m busy, whoever you are [in response to a telephone].
NORTON: Hmm?
SMITH: When they light up, somebody going to call.
NORTON: Okay. All right.
SMITH: Wait, I’m just going to …
NORTON: Okay. What do you remember about the store across the street?
SMITH: Only thing I remember ... So, I’m trying to think of that guy’s name. I think his name was Chuck.
NORTON: Chuck, okay.
SMITH: Mm-hmm, yeah. We used to go over there.
NORTON: This is the corner store there just right across the street from …
SMITH: Right there. Mm-hmm.
NORTON: Yeah, okay. And, then, as I recall, there was another store over …
SMITH: Around here on Walter Street.
NORTON: Okay. On Walter Street.
SMITH: Yeah, yeah. I remember his name good. What was his name?
NORTON: Was that the Mott’s?
SMITH: No, Mott’s was on 12th Street.
NORTON: Yeah, that’s right. Walter was the one that sort of ran between …
SMITH: Right, right straight through.
NORTON: Yeah.
SMITH: The store that was on the corner there, I know his first name was Mr. Herbert.
NORTON: Okay.
SMITH: I can’t think of his last name, but …
NORTON: But he was on the corner of what? 13th and Walter Street?
SMITH: Walter. Uh-huh.
NORTON: At one time, after we moved in, there was a place called the Cornucopia Market.
SMITH: I don’t remember that one.
NORTON: Well, it was sort of a bunch of hippies.
SMITH: And across the street, I know you remember this, across the street was the hammer shop.
NORTON: The hammer shop?
SMITH: Yeah.
NORTON: That was in that …
SMITH: Right over there. That run on there and run around thataway over there.
NORTON: Yeah. And they were all sort of one-story buildings and there were a bunch of them there, right?
SMITH: Yeah, they made them into apartments. [201 - 207 13th Street SE.]
NORTON: Right. But there was a hammer shop there?
SMITH: Yeah, it was a hammer shop.
NORTON: And you what? You go buy hammers there?
SMITH: Yeah, and I think they fixed them or something. I know they called it the hammer shop.
NORTON: Do you remember how long that was open?
SMITH: No, I don’t. I think it were gone in the ’60s, I think.
NORTON: Okay, okay, okay. Any other stores you remember around the neighborhood? Where did you guys go to shop? Yeah, where did you go to buy groceries and stuff?
SMITH: Safeway.
NORTON: The same one there on Kentucky Avenue?
SMITH: The one down there, yeah.
NORTON: Of course, it’s not the same store as now, but …
SMITH: No, no, because they remodeled it. [Laughs.]
NORTON: Yeah. I know by the time we moved in in ’75 it seemed to be a newer store. Had they remodeled it even before that?
SMITH: They probably had. Yeah, they probably had. Yes.
NORTON: Okay, okay, okay.
SMITH: And then we used to go out in Maryland to Shoppers and, you know, places like that.
NORTON: Any other places in the neighborhood that you would go shop and …?
SMITH: No, wasn’t no other store. Well, they had a lot of little corner stores like down on the corner there, you know.
NORTON: There was that—yeah. There was one down there at what? 15th and something.
SMITH: Yeah, 15th and Independence.
NORTON: Yeah, that was a High’s, wasn’t it?
SMITH: We had the High’s. It was over on that corner. [NE corner of 15th and Independence SE.]
NORTON: Okay
SMITH: Yeah, used to be a High’s over there.
NORTON: Okay, okay.
SMITH: And that left. I can’t remember what year that left.
NORTON: Okay.
SMITH: But it left.
NORTON: I mean, there are hardly any corner stores any more.
SMITH: I know it.
NORTON: So, if you need something …
SMITH: I think that one is still around there on 12th Street.
NORTON: The Mott’s one?
SMITH: Yeah. And this one down here. Them the only two I can remember.
NORTON: Yeah, yeah. Okay, so, did the neighborhood ever change in terms of crime getting worse, better, anything like that?
SMITH: No, unh-uh.
NORTON: So, it’s always been a good …
SMITH: Yeah.
NORTON: It’s always been a good … And this particular block has always been particularly good, right?
SMITH: Yeah.
NORTON: So. Because you can go a block one way or the other and sometimes that makes a difference, right?
SMITH: Right, yeah, yeah. This block have always been where you could go sit out on your porch.
NORTON: This is the 1300 block.
SMITH: Or sit out in the yard. When I moved here, the people—one, two, about three doors up—used to sleep out in the yard.
NORTON: Is that right?
SMITH: Mm-hmm. See, now you can’t hardly …
NORTON: In the front yard, right?
SMITH: Front yard. Now you can’t hardly sleep in your house, talking about in the yard. [Both laugh.]
NORTON: And it’s a little noisier, too.
SMITH: Yeah. Oh, yeah.
NORTON: That’s interesting. So, what? Would they sleep out during the summer? Is that the deal?
SMITH: Mm-hmm, in the summertime, yeah.
NORTON: Would they just bring a mattress out or something?
SMITH: No, they had blankets and things and would sleep out in the yard. Mm-hmm.
NORTON: Wow. Did you ever do that?
SMITH: Wouldn’t nobody bother them. Me, no.
NORTON: No, not you.
SMITH: No, I ain’t never did that. No, I’d be scared to do that. [Both laugh.] But it was good back then, you know.
NORTON: Yeah, yeah. Well, now, we all know, or at least I know, that in 1968, when Martin Luther King Jr. was killed, there were the riots.
SMITH: Right, yeah.
NORTON: Do you remember anything about that?
SMITH: Yeah, I had a hard time getting home that day. I had to walk.
NORTON: Where were you coming from?
SMITH: Alexandria, from their house.
NORTON: Oh, the folks now that …
SMITH: Yeah, yeah. From their house.
NORTON: These are the folks that were in Alexandria. Okay. And you took [care of] the kid for 16 years.
SMITH: Yeah, yeah. He lives in Atlanta, Georgia. But every time he come home—Alexandria is his home—every time he come home, they take me out to lunch or something.
NORTON: Oh, that’s nice.
SMITH: Mm-hmm.
NORTON: That’s nice. So, anyway, you were coming back from them and, so, that would have been on the bus, right, at that point.
SMITH: Yeah, yeah. I had a hard time trying to get home.
NORTON: So, how did you get home?
SMITH: From Virginia, I got on the bus from Virginia to 12th and Pennsylvania Avenue [NW]. And used to could walk up to 12th and F and get a bus to bring you out here.
NORTON: Right.
SMITH: But that day, I walked up to 12th and F and, oh, all I could see was the policemen with the guns and things sticking out they cars and things. So I hurried up back down on Pennsylvania Avenue. So, I probably got a bus but it took me maybe about two or three hours to get to Union Station. Couldn’t get no bus from Union Station, so a lot of people was walking. So that day I walked from Union Station here.
NORTON: Back to 1324 Independence.
SMITH: Yeah.
NORTON: Okay. That must have been something. Well, did things change around here after that? Did it get better, worse? I mean, I’m just trying to get a sense ...
SMITH: Oh, no. It was the same. The only thing that changed, people were moving in and out. That was about the only thing that changed.
NORTON: What do you mean, moving in and out?
SMITH: Well, maybe if a family moved out, another family would move right in, you know.
NORTON: Okay. So you’re thinking there were people moving out because of the, you know, the problems with the riots. Or do you think they were just, it’s just the way it was?
SMITH: I think that’s the way it was, you know.
NORTON: Okay, okay. And, then, all of a sudden it started to get gentrified over here, right? Do you remember when you started noticing that?
SMITH: No, I don’t. Because it always seemed, like I say, it always seemed the same to me, only neighbors and things moving in and out. You know, getting new neighbors.
NORTON: So, you always just looked at people as neighbors.
SMITH: Yeah.
NORTON: Yeah, well. You were a great neighbor. [Laughs.]
SMITH: I’ve got some good neighbors right now.
NORTON: Good. Who’s that?
SMITH: Well, these people next door, they’re pretty good. And I’ve got some down about five or six houses down, they’re pretty nice.
NORTON: Good, good. Do you still sit out on the front stoop or …?
SMITH: Yeah, sometime. But the mosquitoes and the bees they won’t let you sit out there.
NORTON: Do you know, it seems like the mosquitoes are worse than they were back in the day.
SMITH: Yeah. Because we used to sit on out. And, like I say, people used to sleep all out in the yard and everything, you know.
NORTON: And the mosquitoes are worse now. That’s interesting. Somebody ought to do a study and figure out why that is.
SMITH: Yeah.
NORTON: Why the mosquitos are back because it wasn’t so bad. Was there ever a lot of trouble, with people speeding down the street, or anything like that?
SMITH: No, it wasn’t no trouble with that. They used to speed down through here and I used to say, “I don’t know why they’re flying down through here but they’ve got to stop at the light.”
NORTON: [Laughs.] That’s right.
SMITH: Yeah, they had to stop at the light.
NORTON: That was in the next block, 14th. Yeah, yeah. And that light’s been there for the whole time you’ve been …?
SMITH: Yeah. I can’t remember what happened. Something happened and a helicopter landed right down there in the middle of the street.
NORTON: Really?
SMITH: Uh-huh. I remember that.
NORTON: Down here, where? Right down Independence down by 14th Street?
SMITH: No, no, no, no. Right down on this side, where the school is.
NORTON: Okay, right. Right by the school then.
SMITH: Yeah. Right along in there.
NORTON: Wow.
SMITH: And I’ve done forgot what happened.
NORTON: Do you remember when that was?
SMITH: But I can remember that helicopter landing there.
NORTON: Yeah, no. I bet you did.
SMITH: Yeah, but I done forgot …
NORTON: [Laughing.] What was that like? Did everybody come out?
SMITH: [Laughs.] I know they were after somebody but I done forgot, you know, what happened.
NORTON: Do you remember, you know, any interactions with the police or anything, or having to call the police, or anything like that while you’ve been here?
SMITH: Oh, yeah, yes.
NORTON: Like what?
SMITH: I remember one time, it was my birthday. I had to call the police for some people that were living here.
NORTON: So. You what? You wanted them out?
SMITH: No, they was arguing or fighting or something and I had to call the police.
NORTON: And, they were what? They were living in this house? Or were they just …?
SMITH: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. It was one of my nephews.
NORTON: Okay, okay. Okay. Other than that, do you remember anything?
SMITH: No, ain’t nothing else happened.
NORTON: No, it was a pretty nice block, so ...
SMITH: Yeah, mm-hmm.
NORTON: Of course, that doesn’t make for interesting stories for the recording. [Laughs.]
SMITH: No, it doesn’t. No, no.
NORTON: But that’s good, that’s good.
SMITH: Okay. Can I go way back?
NORTON: I want you to go way back. Please.
SMITH: Okay. I’m going to go back to when I was about eight or nine.
NORTON: Okay.
SMITH: And we lived down there, like I say, where the Pentagon is sitting.
NORTON: Right.
SMITH: Mm-hmm. And on Sunday, from the airport ... See, because we wasn’t far from the airport. They used to have, what they call it? Exhibition. People used to go up in the helicopter and jump out in the parachute.
NORTON: And they were doing it to show people, right?
SMITH: Yeah. And sometimes they used to land in our yard in the trees and we used to help them to get down. [Both laugh.]
NORTON: And that was even before the Pentagon was built?
SMITH: Oh, yeah, yeah.
NORTON: Okay, okay.
SMITH: Yeah.
NORTON: So, you had to help the people down that were …
SMITH: Yeah, yeah, we used to help them down.
NORTON: Wow. Sounds like [laughs] … That was a long time ago.
SMITH: I was about eight or nine then.
NORTON: Yeah, yeah. I’ll bet you remembered that.
SMITH: Yeah, I remember that.
NORTON: Okay. Let’s see. You know, when you moved in here—and this is something that, you know, it’s just I happen to know, is that the people in DC still couldn’t vote for anything.
SMITH: No.
NORTON: Do you remember the first time you voted in DC?
SMITH: Mm. Let me see. Who did I pull for? I think that was the first time I voted. Yeah. The first time I voted, I voted for Kennedy.
NORTON: Okay. Which would have been ... Well, except, the DC people couldn’t vote until Johnson and Goldwater in ’64. That was apparently the first—at least that’s what the history books tell me.
SMITH: Mm-hmm.
NORTON: But you remember voting for Kennedy?
SMITH: Mm-hmm.
NORTON: Okay. How about local politics? There weren’t any local politics there when you first started.
SMITH: Let me see. Who was—it was 19 ... This was before I got married.
NORTON: So, you would still have been over in Arlington.
SMITH: Yes.
NORTON: Okay.
SMITH: It was President. Was it Roosevelt?
NORTON: Eisenhower? It could have been Roosevelt.
SMITH: No, it wasn’t Eisenhower. I think it was …
NORTON: Could have been Roosevelt. Maybe.
SMITH: I think it was Roosevelt. It was in the ’40s.
NORTON: Well, it could have been Roosevelt then. And you voted over there in Arlington.
SMITH: Well, back then I didn’t know it. I didn’t no nothing about no voting.
NORTON: Oh, okay. Did your folks vote or was there an issue about …?
SMITH: They might have. I don’t remember.
NORTON: Okay, okay. How about over here? Do you remember—because, all of a sudden, they started running for school board and city council or district council and everything.
SMITH: I think the first time I started to voting over here was for Kennedy.
NORTON: Nah.
SMITH: No?
NORTON: It’s probably earlier than that. How about …?
SMITH: Before that?
NORTON: Yeah, or a bit after.
SMITH: Who was before him?
NORTON: Well, it was Eisenhower before.
SMITH: Eisenhower. No, no. I ain’t vote for him. No, I don’t remember voting back then.
NORTON: Okay. No, no, no, and you wouldn’t have been able to. So, I’m just trying to think. Well, like, do you remember Nadine Winter [one of the original members of the DC Council in 1974 when DC gained home rule]?
SMITH: Yeah.
NORTON: Did you vote for her? I mean, was …
SMITH: Yeah.
NORTON: Okay. And then there was the school board had elections.
SMITH: Yeah, but I didn’t know too many of them so I didn’t vote for them. I just voted for the people that I knew, you know.
NORTON: Okay.
SMITH: Knew, but …
NORTON: Where did you vote?
SMITH: Let me see. My first voting was over there at school.
NORTON: Bryan?
SMITH: My second voting was up at Eastern Market.
NORTON: Okay.
SMITH: My last vote was up at Eastern Market.
NORTON: Okay. And I know there for a time they had it in the Episcopal church over there and then they had it down at the Thankful Baptist Church at the end of the …[1401 Independence Avenue SE.]
SMITH: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I voted down there, too.
NORTON: Okay, okay.
SMITH: At the church down there.
NORTON: Okay. Did you go to any of the churches around here?
SMITH: Down there.
NORTON: To the Baptist church, Thankful Baptist?
SMITH: Mm-hmm.
NORTON: Because they always had such a great choir that you would hear them on Sunday.
SMITH: Oh, yeah. I loved to hear them singing.
NORTON: Yeah, they were great. They were great. So, yeah. All right. Do you remember voting for Mayor Barry for mayor?
SMITH: Yeah.
NORTON: Okay.
SMITH: Yeah, I voted for him.
NORTON: Because that would have been ... I think that was right after we moved in that he was [running]. [Barry’s first term began in 1979.] Like ’76, I think, something like that. So, okay. Okay. Anything else you remember about local politics around here?
SMITH: No.
NORTON: Did you get active in any of that stuff?
SMITH: Hmmm..
NORTON: Or did people bother you a lot about who you should vote for or anything?
SMITH: No, they didn’t bother me too much.
NORTON: Okay, okay. Okay.
SMITH: I’m trying to think what else happened around in here.
NORTON: All right, when you moved here there were actually some people that had moved in even before you, right? And they lived here for a long time afterwards, right? Like the Thomases and the Princes and the …
SMITH: Yeah, and the Winstons.
NORTON: The Winstons right directly across the street.
SMITH: Mm-hmm.
NORTON: Okay, okay. What do you remember about them?
SMITH: Well, the Winstons, I remember when their kids was young, you know. I’ve seen them grow up. And the Princes, I used to go over there and do a little housework for them.
NORTON: Okay.
SMITH: Yeah, mm-hmm.
NORTON: As we all know, Mr. Prince made it past a hundred, so …
SMITH: Yeah, right. Yeah.
NORTON: We’re hoping you’ll do the same.
SMITH: [Laughs.] No, I feel terrible sometimes. [Laughs.]
NORTON: Okay. And, then, how about the Thomases? I guess Will is still there, right?
SMITH: Yeah, yeah, yeah. He’s still over there. Yeah, he’s still over there.
NORTON: Will is the son, right?
SMITH: Yeah, mm-hmm. Yeah. Because the daughter, I think she passed.
NORTON: Oh, okay.
SMITH: Yeah. Her name was Ann.
NORTON: And she’d moved out to Prince Georges, too, I think, hadn’t she?
SMITH: Yeah, uh-huh.
NORTON: So. Okay, okay. Okay. Wow. I know we’re trying to think of exciting things that happened in the neighborhood. Do you remember when the presidential inauguration, sometime the president would come by over there on Mass[achusetts] Avenue and right through that intersection?
SMITH: Hmm.
NORTON: I used …
SMITH: I remember—Excuse me for cutting you off.
NORTON: No.
SMITH: I remember when the circus used to come, all the animals used to come down East Capitol Street.
NORTON: Right. That was the Barnum and Bailey Circus.
SMITH: Circus, yeah.
NORTON: All right. What do you remember about that?
SMITH: Oh, I went one time and it was real good. I really enjoyed it.
NORTON: And you could just go out and be on the sidewalk and watch them go by.
SMITH: And watch the an[imals] … Yeah.
NORTON: So, what do you remember? I mean, were there a whole lot of them?
SMITH: Yeah, it was lot of them. I saw a lot of them. Elephants and zebras. Yeah.
NORTON: And they’d come from where? Was the train over there on the …
SMITH: Union Station.
NORTON: Okay, they go from Union Station …
SMITH: Yeah, they came from Union Station.
NORTON: And, now what? Out to the [DC] Armory maybe? Or who knows where they were going? They had to be going somewhere.
SMITH: Yeah. They would come from Union Station. They would walk from Union Station down to the Armory.
NORTON: Okay.
SMITH: Because that was where the circus was.
NORTON: Right, right.
SMITH: King’s father worked with the circus.
NORTON: Really?
SMITH: Yes.
NORTON: Well, they were headquartered here, weren’t they? The circus was. Or did he just work for the circus when they came through.
SMITH: He just worked for them and he was with them when they came through.
NORTON: Okay, okay. Now, how was King’s father related to you?
SMITH: He wasn’t related to me in any way.
NORTON: Oh, okay. So, how do your, King’s …
SMITH: My sister.
NORTON: Okay, all right. Your sister was his mother.
SMITH: Right. Mm-hmm.
NORTON: Okay.
SMITH: When she lived here. I’ve got a picture over here. [Sound of rustling pages.]
NORTON: And that’s a picture of your sister, who was King’s mother.
SMITH: Mother, yeah.
NORTON: What was her name?
SMITH: Catherine.
NORTON: Okay. Where’d she live?
SMITH: She lived over in Alexandria.
NORTON: Okay, okay.
SMITH: [More sounds of rustling pages]. I don’t see it.
NORTON: I don’t either.
SMITH: It’s got to be the phone.
NORTON: Well, we’ll find out when it rings.
SMITH: I heard it. [More rustling.]
NORTON: All right, let me put it on pause for a second here.
NORTON: Okay, we’re back on. We’ve now found the phone that fell under the chair. [Both laugh.] Yeah, no. And you’re trying to think of other things, I mean just in the whole neighborhood, you know, things that happened while you were here. And it’s funny because, of course, some of the things that you might think are not particularly interesting …
SMITH: Okay. What I’m trying to explain. I wants to get it right. I don’t want to get it wrong.
NORTON: Well, do your best.
SMITH: I’m trying to think of ... Was it his girlfriend? I think it was his girlfriend.
NORTON: [Whispers something.]
SMITH: Oh, I don’t want to be recording it because I ain’t read his ...
NORTON: Okay, all right. You get to think about it.
SMITH: I think it was his girlfriend. Okay, I’m ready.
NORTON: All right. What do you remember?
SMITH: I remember, let me see. A house down the street from me, not quite to the alley, this man—I think it was his girlfriend—set his girlfriend on fire.
NORTON: Oooh.
SMITH: That was years ago. Or right after I moved in here.
NORTON: Wow. Well, what happened?
SMITH: We never did find out what happened.
NORTON: So, the fire department had to come and all that.
SMITH: Yeah. Mm-hmm.
NORTON: Oh, man. Do you remember when the building that had the market there at the corner burned? Do you remember that?
SMITH: I think I do.
NORTON: I mean, I remember that. It’s the only reason I raise it. So. I remember we were afraid it was going to catch the Thomas’s house.
SMITH: Oh, yeah. Mm-hmm. I might have been at work.
NORTON: Well, that’s true because it was during the day.
SMITH: Mm-hmm.
NORTON: But I was here so, maybe, I don’t know. It may have been a weekend or something.
SMITH: Mm-hmm.
NORTON: All right. Well, I’m running out of things. Let me look at my list a little bit and I’m going to put us on pause again.
SMITH: Let me know when I’m ready.
NORTON: Now, I understand one time you were coming back from out of town on the what? The Greyhound [bus] and it was snowing. Right?
SMITH: Yes.
NORTON: So, what happened then?
SMITH: Well, when we got off the bus from ... Oh, can I say where I were coming from?
NORTON: Sure.
SMITH: When we got off the bus coming from Atlantic City, it was snow on the ground. And I had some little flip flops on. So and we didn’t have no money to get on the bus, so we walked from 12th and New York Avenue down to, I think, 12th and E Street, down there by the FBI [Federal Bureau of Investigation] building to get the bus to come over this a way. So when the bus pulls up, I say to the driver, I say, “Look, driver, we are stranded,” I said. “We don’t have no money,” I say. “So is there any way that you can get us close to Lincoln Park?” So he said, “Come on.” So he brought us on over to Lincoln Park, I say. And when we got off the bus, I thanked him and told him the Lord was going to bless him.
NORTON: [Laughs.] Good. Do you remember other snows around here? I mean, there were some big snows during the time you’ve been here.
SMITH: Yeah. I remember one big snow. It was in February.
NORTON: Usually are, but not always.
SMITH: Yeah, we had a big snow. And, then, I remember a ice thing we had, too. I forget what month that was in.
NORTON: The ice storms.
SMITH: Yeah, we had an ice storm. Mm-hmm.
NORTON: And what was that like?
SMITH: But, still, we had, long as I’ve been in Washington, DC, we ain’t had no snow like they used to have when I was a child in Virginia.
NORTON: Really?
SMITH: Yeah, they used to have deep snow back then.
NORTON: And it was just across the river.
SMITH: Yeah. Used to have deep snow.
NORTON: Okay.
SMITH: Over here in DC you just have a little dusting sometime.
NORTON: Oh, I don’t know. I remember some deep ones here, you know.
SMITH: I think I can remember one real deep snow and I believe that was back in 1975, back then. Because Donnie was a boy. Because the snow was so deep, Bert came up with him and I couldn’t see him.
NORTON: [Laughs.] Because he was so small, the snow was taller than he was.
SMITH: Yeah. Because they had been talking about snow and they had been talking about snow and we hadn’t gotten none. So, my sister say. “Have you looked outside?” I say no. She say. “Look outside, open your door.” I say okay. I opened my door. I couldn’t even open the door. Snow was up—I couldn’t even open the door. Now, that’s the first one I can remember was that deep.
NORTON: Yeah, yeah.
SMITH: Yeah, because people had their skis and everything. I could sit here and see them going through around there.
NORTON: Just driving down Independence Avenue, on the skis.
SMITH: No, I didn’t see none coming down Independence Avenue.
NORTON: Okay.
SMITH: I seen them going down 13th and Kentucky.
NORTON: Okay. On their skis.
SMITH: On their skis, yeah. Uh-huh. And everything was shut down. Everything was shut down. Yeah, I can remember that.
NORTON: [Laughs.] All right. Well, I’m just, you know, I’m trying to think. I remember your kids. They were great. They would come and visit. They were a lot of fun. At least, when I say your kids, they were …
SMITH: Yeah, definitely mine.
NORTON: It seemed like they were your kids. So, yeah. They were nice kids.
SMITH: Did you ever get a copy of that, like that in the paper?
NORTON: The thing with King’s obituary? The column about how nice he was.
SMITH: Yeah, how they’d liked him and …
NORTON: I do have that. Thank you.
SMITH: Uh-huh, yeah. Good.
NORTON: I made a copy of that. Yeah, he was …
SMITH: Yeah, they were crazy about him down there.
NORTON: Just so we’re clear, that was in The Washington Post. I think it was Theresa Vargas wrote a column about him. [“In a Historic Cemetery, Groundskeeper Will Rest Among Congressmen.” October 21, 2024.]
NORTON: …  right by Marion Barry. Which I gather he was a big fan of Mayor Barry.
SMITH: Yeah, uh-huh.
NORTON: Okay, okay. So, yeah, he’s right behind him.
SMITH: Mm-hmm.
NORTON: So, that’s nice. All right. Well, I’m running out of other things to ask you about.
SMITH: Oh, I missed out on something. Well, when you say, well, what did I do for fun?
NORTON: Yeah.
SMITH: Yeah. Should I get that in now?
NORTON: Sure. Go for it.
SMITH: For fun, I used to go down to Maryland and see a lot of the singers which have gone on now.
NORTON: Like who?
SMITH: Let me see. I’ve seen Jackie Wilson down in Maryland and I’ve seen a lot of singers. But I’ve done forgot some of them.
NORTON: Did you ever see Roberta Flack when she was over at Mr. [Henry’s] [historic bar, restaurant, and nightclub at 601 Pennsylvania Avenue SE]? Apparently that was before I … [Roberta Flack, then a DC teacher, began performing at Mr. Henry’s five nights a week in 1968.]
SMITH: Well, I knew Roberta Flack when she was young.
NORTON: How did you know her?
SMITH: She lived over in Arlington. Because she had a cousin. Her cousin and I, we used to go out, you know. And I used to go up to their house and wait for her cousin and Roberta would be practicing on the piano.
NORTON: Did you know she was going to be a big star singer?
SMITH: No, back then I didn’t. No, uhn-uh. For a while, she lived right around the corner there.
NORTON: Really?
SMITH: Yeah, she lived right around there on Kentucky.
NORTON: On Kentucky, in that first block of Kentucky?
SMITH: Yeah, mm-hmm.
NORTON: The unit block, I guess, of Kentucky.
SMITH: Yeah. Uh-huh.
NORTON: Yeah, wow. When was that? Do you remember?
SMITH: That was back in the ’60s or somewhere around there like that. Or maybe before.
NORTON: So, when you went down and heard people sing in Maryland, where did you go? Where in Maryland?
SMITH: We went down to a place called Wilmer’s Park [a dancehall and bandstand in rural Prince George’s County that hosted African American entertainers in the 1950s and 1960s].
NORTON: Wilmer’s Park?
SMITH: Yeah.
NORTON: Okay. And where is that? What’s it near? Do you know?
SMITH: No, I don’t know.
NORTON: [Laughs.] You just went, huh?
SMITH: Yeah, yeah.
NORTON: Do you remember who else you heard, other than Jackie Wilson?
SMITH: Let me see. Who else? I know I seen a lot of performers down there. Because they had a baseball game in the—you know. Then they had the performers. Mmm. It’s been so long. I’ve done forgot some of them, you know. Oh, oh, I do know the Dells …
NORTON: The Dells.
SMITH: … because I got two or three of their autographs.
NORTON: Okay.
SMITH: Yeah. I got Mickey’s, Marvin’s, and Johnny’s. Johnny and Marvin, they’re dead, they’ve passed on. I don’t know about the other two.
NORTON: The Dells. Yeah, they were something. They were big. Were they big when you went to see them or was that …?
SMITH: Yeah. And I went to Atlantic City because I was in the club.
NORTON: Which club was that?
SMITH: It was called the Social Blenders. And we gave a trip to New Jersey because the Dells was up there at that time. I forget the name of the club that we went up there to see the Dells.
NORTON: Now, where was the Social Blenders? Where did they meet?
SMITH: Here. My basement was the clubhouse.
NORTON: Okay. So, who started the Social Blenders?
SMITH: Let me see, it was Lawrence and Joe and Mike and Nick. They all started it.
NORTON: And who were they? I mean, how did you know them?
SMITH: Well, I met Lawrence and Joe through King.
NORTON: Your nephew King, the one that, as we’ve said, worked over at the cemetery.
SMITH: Yeah. And I met the rest of them through them.
NORTON: Okay. Do you remember any of their last names?
SMITH: Yeah. Lawrence was named Lawrence Jennings. And his brother was named Joe, well, Joseph. They called him Joe Jennings. And Nick was named—what was Nick’s last name? I forget Nick’s last name. But there he is up there.
NORTON: That’s a picture of them all in their dress jackets and all that stuff.
SMITH: Yeah, mm-hmm.
NORTON: So, what did they do?
SMITH: Oh, well, we used to have club meetings and all. And we used to give trips.
NORTON: Okay. You gave trips to people.
SMITH: Except, yeah, we gave trips to different places.
NORTON: Well, when were they operating? When were they in existence?
SMITH: In 1960, from ’60 to ’61, I think. I think the club broke up.
NORTON: So, it didn’t last very long.
SMITH: No, it didn’t last too long.
NORTON: Okay. But they sound like a good group.
SMITH: It was. It was a good group.
NORTON: And did you have parties and stuff like that?
SMITH: Yeah, mm-hmm.
NORTON: So, where’d you have the parties?
SMITH: We used to have cabarets uptown at the, what was it? WUST?
NORTON: Oh, yeah. The radio station.
SMITH: Radio station.
NORTON: WUST.
SMITH: Mm-hmm.
NORTON: Where was that located? Do you know?
SMITH: Up there, what was it? Oh, 9th and U? [Its call letters came from its studio and ballroom location at 1120 U Streeet NW.]
NORTON: Okay, all right.
SMITH: I think it was 9th and U.
NORTON: All right.
SMITH: Mm-hmm. We used to have cabarets up there.
NORTON: Okay. And, okay, well, it sounds like fun.
SMITH: It was fun, it was a lot of fun.
NORTON: Well, it’s a shame they didn’t last very long.
SMITH: I know it. That one in the middle, that’s the members.
NORTON: That’s the picture that you’ve got on your wall.
SMITH: Yeah. And the one up at the top, that’s the one when we went to New Jersey to see the Dells.
NORTON: Okay, okay. And they must have lasted longer than a year or so.
SMITH: Oh, yeah. I think it must have lasted about two years, I think. Two or three.
NORTON: Okay. Wow, okay. Anything else you remember you did for fun that you don’t mind talking about? [Laughs.]
SMITH:  No, that’s about all.
NORTON: Okay. Well, that sounds like fun. Every time I think I’m done, we come up with something else you think of.
SMITH: Oh, well, I’ll tell you something we used to do here in the house for fun.
NORTON: What was that?
SMITH: In the wintertime, we used to play these games. One called—oh, shoot. We used to play it all the time. Oh, shoot. Right on the tip of my tongue. Mmm.
NORTON: Well, if you can give me a hint, maybe I can help you.
SMITH: Was it Bingo? No, it wasn’t Bingo. Oh, shoot. But we used to play that in the wintertime. We used to play these games in the wintertime.
NORTON: Mm-hmm. And who’d come to play?
SMITH: And we’d play for pennies, you know. We had four cups, you know, and we’d ...
NORTON: So, who would come play? I mean, was it people in the neighborhood?
SMITH: It was just—no, no, mostly it would be our family.
NORTON: Your family.
SMITH: Yeah. It would be Bert and the kids, you know, and all.
NORTON: Right. Okay, okay.
SMITH: That’s what we’d usually do in the wintertime. Couldn’t get out, you know.
NORTON: Right, that’s true. Well, even though you say we didn’t have that big snow, every now and then we would.
SMITH: Yeah, mm-hmm. But here lately we ain’t had a big one in about two or three years.
NORTON: No, not now. No, no, it’s been a long time since we had a big one.
SMITH: Yeah, since we had a big one.
NORTON: So, yeah, yeah. We had some big ones. Did you ever have a car?
SMITH: No. No, no, no.
NORTON: So, how’d you get around?
SMITH: On the bus.
NORTON: Okay.
SMITH: Or unless somebody took me, you know.
NORTON: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SMITH: Back then I had a friend had a car.
NORTON: Okay.
SMITH: That’s how I used to get around.
NORTON: Okay. Did the friend live in the neighborhood or …?
SMITH: No, he lived over in Southeast.
NORTON: Okay, okay, okay. But, like, when you went to work, unless somebody gave you a ride, you’d  go catch the bus.
SMITH: No, I went to work with the bus and subway. Well, first it was the bus and, then, when the subway come around, it was the bus and subway. I used to take the subway to the Pentagon and from the Pentagon I used to take the bus out in Virginia.
NORTON: Okay, okay. How long did it take you to get to, like, when you were doing your sitting jobs out in Virginia?
SMITH: In Virginia? It didn’t take too long. I had to be there at 8:00.
NORTON: In the morning.
SMITH:  I used to always get there at 8:00.
NORTON: Okay. So, you had to get up reasonably early but you …
SMITH: Yeah, mm-hmm.
NORTON: Okay, okay. Okay. All right. Well, I am running out of things to ask you, but unless …
SMITH: [Laughs] I’m trying to think of something.
NORTON: Well, you’re doing great. And every time you come up with something, it’s good, and I can follow it up a little bit. But … the Social Blenders, that’s just cool. I’d never heard of them.
SMITH: Uh-huh. That’s them. That’s us up there. And that top one is up in New Jersey. I forget the name of that club we were in to see the Dells.
NORTON: Yeah.
SMITH: Mm-hmm. And the bus used to leave from right out there.
NORTON: What? Right in front? Right on Independence?
SMITH: Mm-hmm.
NORTON: Since we lived there, we never had a bus going down Independence but has it ever gone down Independence?
SMITH: No, I’m talking about when we went to Atlantic City.
NORTON: No, it was kind of you chartered the bus or something like that.
SMITH: Yeah, charter bus, yeah.
NORTON: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SMITH: But the city bus never went down through here.
NORTON: Do you remember when it became one way?
SMITH: No, I don’t.
NORTON: Was there a lot of …
SMITH: It was after I moved here, I know.
NORTON: Yeah, no. And it was before ’75 because by then it was …
SMITH: Oh, yeah. It was way before ’75.
NORTON: And were people unhappy or happy or whatever when it became one way?
SMITH: I don’t know. Well, for one, I was happy because them little kids wouldn’t be running back and forth across that street, you know.
NORTON: Right. Well, they still would but at least there’d only be cars going from one direction.
SMITH: Yeah, but, yeah—one direction.
NORTON: Okay, okay. All right. Well, I have run out of things to ask you. Thank you very much. I really appreciate this. It’s been most interesting. As always, I’ve learned a lot about the neighborhood and this part of town and things that I didn’t know about it before. So, thank you.
SMITH: You’re welcome. Mm-hmm.
NORTON: And I’m going to turn it off now, okay?
SMITH: Okay.
NORTON: All right.

END OF INTERVIEW
Ruth Ann Overbeck Capitol Hill History Project
Interview with Helen Smith, March 23, 2024

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